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Refs - 1st responder training???

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Refs - 1st responder training???

Postby mikereilly » Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:10 am

Do you think that all Lic. refs in Minnesota should be required to have first responder training?
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Re: Refs - 1st responder training???

Postby MattyMay » Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:22 am

I don’t think it would hurt by any means however seeing as how there is a doctor onsite at all times I don’t really think it is necessary or should be required.
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Re: Refs - 1st responder training???

Postby mikereilly » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:23 pm

I'm concerned that the ref is often with the fighter first. Since I have seen then flip KOd fighters over with out stabalizing the neck. Also the Docs are alone and often GPs. In the last two years I have seen guys get rolled incorrectly, C-Collared wrong and not one time have I seen O2 given to a fighter.
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Re: Refs - 1st responder training???

Postby MattyMay » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:28 pm

Good point, I have seen that as well. There might even be some training programs that specialize in trauma similar to what a fighter may experience. That I could see as being very helpful.
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Re: Refs - 1st responder training???

Postby Kyle Shiely » Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:31 pm

Of course not.

To quote my friend Mike Reilly "this sport has survived for" 15 years without referees needing first responder training, why would they need it now? Boxing referees don't have it either, and in the 80 years of boxing and 15 years of MMA I haven't heard of a single story where someone was saved or died or hurt because of the referee's medical training.

Would it hurt, no. Should it be mandatory? No. Mike did you have first responder training when you were a referee?
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Re: Refs - 1st responder training???

Postby Kyle Shiely » Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:32 pm

Mike didn't that heavyweight at The Myth get O2 after he gassed in the cage? He got the O2 in the back, but he got it.
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Re: Refs - 1st responder training???

Postby calebdude » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:31 pm

Dave Green have his first responder training and after Zak Jensen got choked out he jumped in the ring and asked the 'ring doctor' why he wasn't doing anything he was supposed to be doing and whoever the doctor was looked at him and told him to get the fuck out of the ring an stop telling him how to do his job.

DG was pissed about that for weeks... I bet if you bring that up around him to this day he will still get upset.

I'm not taking sides one way or another, this discussion just reminded me of that night.
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Re: Refs - 1st responder training???

Postby mikereilly » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:51 pm

Yes Kyle I was a 1st responder - been one for over 25 years.

If Kyle had r3ead carefully he would have note both me and Matty reported incidents where a ref flips an out fight in a way that could have caused serious neck injury. I have also seen the posision fighters without securing the mouth piece and fighters have nearly choked.
So not a good idea now Klye - will it be one after they kill some of the boys? Should we just wait til then? Nothing proactive needed
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Re: Refs - 1st responder training???

Postby Local_Scholar » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:22 pm

They could just go be an EMS for better money if they were going to get involved in any of that. Lets leave the medical shit to the doctors.. the REAL doctors
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Re: Refs - 1st responder training???

Postby mikereilly » Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:44 pm

Wow I’m guessing either you put no thought into this post or said it; but really don’t believe it.
Here quick quiz… Your in a car accident.. you come to and standing at the window of your vehicle.. Would you rather see a 25 year old EMT or a 60 years old gynecologist? Understand one spends his days stabilizing patients for transport while the other… well doesn’t. I get all the schooling and so on; but think about what sort of medical treatment is going to be done at a fight. What skills are really necessary? If the problem is not really serious then we don’t need a doctor. If the problem is very serious then we need to get the patient to a facility where they can save his live (stabilize for transport). I think the medical professional we should have on hand is someone who specializes in stabilizing for transport.
So back to our quick quiz… If the person you want at your window is a medic then I would hope you would want the same for a fighter. I seriously doubt we will ever get that sort of medical care here for fighters. It is why my team brings our own medic to nearly every show. But it would be nice if someone in the cage with an injured fighter knew the basic paradigms of care.
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Re: Refs - 1st responder training???

Postby Local_Scholar » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:21 pm

Wow I’m guessing either you put no thought into this post or said it; but really don’t believe it.
Here quick quiz… You're in an mma fight (buck vs pasquale).. you come to and laying strapped to a backboard.. Would you rather see a 25 year old ref forced to get first response training or a 60 year old doctor? Understand one spends his days eating cheeseburgers and drinking himself to sleep, while the other spends his days analyzing, and actively working on patients with various injuries.

Doctors need to know how to stabilize a patient as well, mikey. Its part of their VAST knowledge base that they acquired through years of medical school. Which also give them the ability to say whether or not an injury is worth stopping a fight over, which is 50% of the reason the doctors are there anyways..

Be realistic for once
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Re: Refs - 1st responder training???

Postby mikereilly » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:51 am

Actully Cody was put in the C-Collar incorrectly... our Medic changed it outside of the cage. The way it was applied put his neck in a dangerous spot and restricted his airway. So yes I would rather have the medic. Thank you for making my point name less person.

Again Medics are doing this all day every day - retrain every few weeks. Most MDs re-train what... every 5 years? If even that.

When a fighter hits the mat I want to first person who touches him to know what to do. Sorry if that seems extreme or unrealistic.

As I said we bring our own medic - Sadly we can't help our guys until they are out of the cage.

The last fight I went to at least 4 fighters appeared to be concussed. The doctor never entered the cage. The ref just coaxed the fighters to their feet. At some point this will get expensive. Personally I would like to see this debated among people with skin in the game.
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